Hive Proposal System Starting To Pay Off And Proposed Changes OfferedsteemCreated with Sketch.

in LeoFinance •  4 months ago 

The Hive Proposal System is a very important part of the Hive ecosystem. During the fork, the ninja-mined stake that was so controversial on Steem was sent to this fund as a way to promote development on Hive. While it has not been without controversy, we are starting to see a few results.

Yesterday, @netuoso put out an important post that announced the ability to store HIVE on the Nano Ledger wallet. This provides individuals with the ability to store their HIVE in an external, secure wallet.

Nano Ledger is one of the most used external wallets. Having HIVE incorporated in it puts this in the same league as some of the better known currencies.

This was a tweet that was sent out about the announcement.

While this is a big milestone, this is only part of the process. In the comment section of the post, we see this:

nanohive.png

Getting it on Ledger Live would really help to push Hive forward in this arena. That is where, basically, full the company signs off on the integration and it becomes part of the core currencies supported.

Hardware wallets are becoming a bigger part of the cryptocurrency world. With people not wanting to store their tokens on exchanges, hardware wallets are being turned it. It is a way to get one's currency offline and safe from the hackers.

Here is the post making the announcement.

https://peakd.com/hive-139531/@netuoso/hive-application-for-the-ledger-nano-s-x-hardware-wallet

This helps to show the power of the Hive Proposal System and being able to fund development (along with other needed tasks such as marketing). This was one of the proposals that was funded allowing Netuoso to make this breakthrough. In the past, we relied upon a single organization to provide the development that was needed. Even if they were successful in their endeavors, they could not have the same reach as a development community.

The Hive Proposal System allows us, as a community, to decide what projects to fund in an effort to assist development and other tasks. As the value of HIVE grows, the fund becomes worth more. The payouts are in HBD yet the fund has near 80 million HIVE.

Here is where we see the idea of a community run initiative entering the picture. Without a central organization, such as a foundation, everything falls upon us to make it work. Thus, having a DAO dedicated to this end is crucial.

That said, there are many who call aspects of it into question. In fact, some have questioned the entire premise of the Hive Proposal System and how valid it really is. Certainly, we are in the early stages and we can work to make improvements on the system.

One such idea popped up yesterday from @blocktrades. Dan offered up a suggestion to alter how proposals are paid for. Instead of offering the same price for all proposals, the price increases the longer the time on the proposal.

Thus a long term proposal, say 180 days, would cost more than one that covered 30 days.

In the post, a line of 10 days was tossed out there.

One way we could discourage long term proposals would be to increase the cost of creating them. For example, increase their cost by 1 HBD for each day a proposal lasts over 10 days. Currently it costs 10 HBD to create a proposal, so proposals shorter than 11 days would cost the same as previously. But a proposal that stays in the system for a year would cost 356 HBD.

Somewhere in the comments, I recall reading someone presenting a 60 or 90 days limit as opposed to 10. Then, after that, the price increases in proportion to the number of days that one wants funding to go past there.

This is an idea that makes sense to me. Many tasks can be accomplished in that time period. With a free floating voting mechanism, where votes can be changed at anytime, longer proposals tend not to make a great deal of sense since funding can be removed.

Obviously, there are a lot of discussions left regarding the Hive Proposal System and ways to improve upon it. We are only at the beginning thus, more ideas are welcome.

For this reason, a community called "Hive Improvement" was created where anyone can post ideas and open things up for discussion.

https://hive.blog/trending/hive-102930

Here is the full post about some of the ideas to change the fees on creating a proposal.

https://peakd.com/blocktrades/@blocktrades/should-long-term-hive-proposals-cost-more-to-create

It is easy to focus upon how something is now while omitting what it can be in the future. We saw Hive put together, from what was released, in a little over a month. There was a lot to do in a short period of time. The group of roughly 100 people tried to cover as much as they could.

Of course, nothing is perfect and this is why continued discussion is needed. The Hive Proposal System is a prime example. If there is something that does not appear to be working, suggest a change. I think it is safe to say most everyone on Hive is interested in improvements wherever they can be implemented.


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Pretty cool, I like the proposed changes by Dan, having the longer proposals cost more is a good way to discourage just throwing out a long ass proposal. Some that do the proposals though have a lot of stake and liquid so it may not be as much of an issue for them versus someone trying to bring benefits that isn't as well known.

Pretty awesome update for Ledger though, maybe I will actually get to use mine soon!

It is a very sensible idea. I think a 10 day window is, perhaps, to short but 60 days makes sense. Anything beyond that requires a bit more money.

The key is that discussions start taking place and ideas put forth to improve it.

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I feel they should have burned the ninja mined

That is a view many have expressed.

If that was done, how do we pay for development and marketing? That is the question without that stake.

That was the original intention of the stake on Steem, something that Ned obviously did not fulfill.

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They're taking a piece off every post to pay for things. I've seen many people posting solutions that don't involve using the stolen ninja mined stake

So this was part of the funding for his proposal #80 ?

No I do not believe so.

I think that is something that Dan was just thinking about in general terms.

But I cant say for certain. I think his proposal for funding is something totally different.

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The proposals voting system is a crucial issue in our blockchain, we saw what happened with JS, I like Dan's idea but imo we should be discussing how to improve the DAO management and the proposal system. Is our weakest point and a vector to attack the chain that remains at it was in steemit, so for me should be the priority nº1 to avoid problems like what we had. I'm insinting in this in every conversation I see, sorry to be so annoying with the issue.

I am not sure I follow. The DAO funds cannot be controlled like Steemit Inc so I am not sure we are looking at the same thing.

Unless you are referring to the Witness voting which I agree needs also some consideration as to prevent what we saw take place.

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Yes, I was referring to the witness votes and DAO as you said can't be controlled by a seller (Ned) to anyone who wants to buy (JS), but it can be ravaged by a large stakeholder or someone like JS only by buying enough HIVE and powering up, that is still the attack vector I was trying to explain.

Anyways you can't control directly the DAO but you can make a insane proposal to earn the amount you want and with the mentioned stake would pass without problems because nobody is able to counter it with votes against or by other methods.

PD: Well actually there is a method to counter that, everybody voting for the gtg return proposal and making much more difficult to pass any proposal but that would also paralize any other legit proposal.

That is true although there is a limit to the amount of HBD distributed each day but I see your point.

Without the ninja mined stake, the ability to take over like JS is a lot more difficult. The truth is, as it was, without that stake, JS never takes control of Steem. But we should do all we can to spread things out even more with HIVE tokens. That is why distribution is vital.

As for the witness voting, it needs revamping. Is it one account one vote? I dont have the answer but the 30 witness votes makes little sense to me when there are 17 required for consensus. We should start with 15 max per account.

It is all a process and does warrant a great deal of discussion. We need to think about these difference scenarios.

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It is all a process and does warrant a great deal of discussion. We need to think about these difference scenarios.

Totally agree with that, I know is difficult but is also necessary imo.

The toughest discussions are the ones needed the most.

It is the path to a much stronger system.

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That's the biggest development ever till now we have been going through in a right direction and with lots of core developments hive can be the next big thing as community is its real power

  ·  4 months ago Reveal Comment

Ignoring token price, it is good to see what is taking place. Things are moving relatively fast for where we started.

It is amazing what a community can do when they take the onus upon themselves.

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